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The Constituting gathering will try to put together a basic structure which will support those who are "Word Alone in focus" who wish to remain within the ELCA and to work for reformation from within to undo the damages already done to the ELCA as a Lutheran Church body and also to support those persons, congregations, and pastors desiring to leave the ELCA. Many issues will need to be discussed as the Word Alone Network takes shape.
There appear to be wide divergences in understanding even over the term "Word Alone" and once this is dealt with there cgat be wide differences on other doctrinal points and understandings. We hope that we will be able to be in close fellowship with the Constituted and developing WA Network that emerges. From a distance some thoughts on your questions a la ELCM in response to the questions posed to your Word Alone 2nd round gatherings.
Question 2 needs a good bit of definition which likely can only take place after you have somehow formed an fhat organization. It strikes me that questions 1 and 3 are integrally related. Faithfulness to the Confessional Lutheranism freedom from Historic Episcopate, etc. In our view that is exactly and precisely where the leaking away of the congregational authority takes place and suddenly voila' the organization has developed a centralized control system at the expense of the congregations and parish pastors before any realize it has happened.
We believe this is as good a guarantee against loss of fhat political control and also a guarantee against loss of the Confessional Lutheran stance by the wider body.
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All congregations are treated equally and Consensus in light of the Scripture and in light of the Confessions is central. This could make adoption of things a slow process but any who have lived in the ELCA as we have know that this is not such a bad thing. So for what it is worth there is a bit of warning from rolm learnings of your mustard seed, sliver, splinter, etc. I will copy this to a few of your Word Alone folk. Blessings to you all in your efforts to think through the many areas and fere take a firm stand.
Attorney Lynn Basich and her father Pastor Thomas and brother Pastor Matthew have been very helpful to congregations and pastors seeking advice and counsel regarding how to get out of Saitn.
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Though AOELS is not on the Internet or accessible through they report that they have assisted 71 congregations to date in looking at their alternatives and some of the legal dimensions involved in leaving the ELCA. I never saw the point of super liberal Lutheranism - If there is no resurrection of the flesh, why bother with church?
Seems politics and the United Way would be more efficient ways to spread social action. Likewise, I never saw the point of super conservative Lutheranism - If there is a resurrection of the flesh, why can't it manifest with more love and less crucifixions of people over peripheral doctrines. I guess I am curious about what you consider to be 'Centrist' positions on the major Lutheran doctrines and practices.
Very interesting. It looks like you folks really are trying to be centrists. If I understand you correctly, the creation issue is primarily that God made the creation for a purpose Funny how the super conservatives will condemn the Calvinists for explaining the 'how it happens' of the Lord's Supper yet proceed to do the exact same thing with the creation issue! Nice stance!
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I I've mulled over that issue a good while myself I assume having word alone women pastors looks like a way to be faithful to the women prophets-apostles-teachers texts without negating the male authority texts? The church bestows these positions: bishop, priest, deacon ess. The Spirit bestows these positions: apostle, prophet, teacher-pastor, evangelist.
Some individuals function with both a church bestowed position and a Spirit bestowed position while others function with one or the other or neither. So I guess my point about the church and Spirit bestowed positions ministries is that the distinction and relationship seems so obvious to me yet no one seems to get it. The Didache describes the church ordained working alongside the Spirit ordained. Does one have to have an M.
Div degree to be a pastor in an ELCM church? I have always wondered what happened to the catholic part of the Evangelical Catholic Lutheran movement of Luther. It seems to me that in order to really espouse the 'traditional' aspects of Lutheran practice Liturgy, infant baptism, clerical robes, etc etcSola Scriptura needs to be understood in a more historical light than the sola scriptura of American Fundamentalism.
In other words, it was a needed doctrine at the time to break with the medieval Roman works righteousness based on 'tradition'. Perhaps to understand Scripture as the gem of the whole tradition would be a better way to look at it? The baby would not have to be thrown out with the bath water that way! In divorcing tradition, we lost the 'communion of saints' among other things. May the Spirit guide you into deeper fellowship with Christ in your journey Sometime between 1st and 2nd Epiphany. You have an interesting web site.
I hope its not taking too much of your time. As a Lutheran web 'guru' are you aware of any Lutheran church that posts its weekly worship on the web in 'real audio'? I'm a NAmerican Lutheran living in remote remote northern Japan. My worship opportunities are very very limited and further restricted by the fact that in one of the neighboring churches the pastor does not believe in the words of the Apostles creed. His Fref sermon was about the spiritual search of Malcolm X.
I will not take my wife and daughter there. Complete 'connectedness' between hymns, lessons, sermon and propers.
A thematic whole. A total posting of the service down to the announcements, Mrs. Smith's or Schmitt's cough and little Johnny's misbehavior or crying. The language of faith and especially that of worship is 'aural' in its meaning and its power. Printed sermons do not really carry the same fdee. Radio or ministries such as the "Lutheran" hour good as they are sound too much like a performance as well as not really grounded in the Church year and lectionary.
I would like the 'feeling' of being there. Attendance at such a site would be supplemental to and not in replacement of our attendance at the monthly Episcopal Eucharist where I can hear echoes of the 'service' in a language I do understand. Sincerely, Thanks for repeating your post, as well as for the encouraging words.
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Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier - budgeting my computer time is a bit of a problem!! I just looked over some of the ELCM material, and will make note of the site as a future resource.
For the time being, though, I don't think we're the best match. I am very appreciative of what God is doing in the charismatic streams of His Church today.
Eoom want to be where the best the charismatic stream meets waint best of the evangelical stream. While I pastor a church that maintains the liturgical character to its morning services, we're just now adding a non-liturgical service in the evening, and early indications are that it is going to help our evangelistic efforts dramatically. I don't claim any lineage to the pietists, but would probably be classified as such by many, and have great respect sait admiration for the movement, such as I've seen.
Anyway, three of the treasures that are close to my heart are three things you mentioned the ELCM is not, so it doesn't look likely that I'll be heading your direction. I continue to pray that the Word Alone network will move in the direction that I see most of Christianity moving - thoroughly ecumenical in a healthy sensesolidly biblical with the confessions as a helpful secondary resourceand with the breath of the Spirit infusing our life together.
That's where I hope to be headed, in any case, and am actively searching for traveling companions. Thanks for asking!! God's powerful blessings upon your ministries. I've done a little more reading at your web site and another you had a hand in. Do you have an Internet or contact with the Augustana Ev. Orthodox Lutheran Church people, who you describe as a roo, to the right of the ELCA and a little bit to the left of where you are at. I also think that many Lutherans who could be termed 'pietist' which sometimes has a pejorative meaning and sometimes a positive meaning are folks who honestly struggle with what it means to " live under Him in his Kingdom and serve Him in everlasting righteousness, innocence and blessedness".
Unfortunately the language they ppaul available to talk about this struggle is not so sainnt and they can get trapped when they roon cross examined about daint. This was an area that our founding pastor and congregations knew very little about until we spent a time of trial membership in TAALC. We then were pushed to give the matter a good bit of reflection and study.
The perception is that LC-MS has a bit more of the orientation but many within ELCA bent upon Church Growth have increasingly turned toward appealing to people via emotion in worship or in attempting to satisfy perceived needs. The following is the note that our ELCM President sent in reply to the accurate discernment of a site fdee of our position on these matters.
Appreciate your reply and your thoughts. We are not opposed to the charismatic as it practiced in mild doses but have seen the direction that can take a la the TAALC experience.
It tends to become very judgmental very quickly regarding salvation and usually without meaning to do so. All of the Charismatic Lutherans we have encountered have been very much into lifting up the Word Alone and Jesus Alone but really the "experiential" seems to be also lifted right up there next in the ordering and that can very quickly make the individual and his or her feelings the center.
I hope you and your folks can guard against that.
One of the congregations associated with us is much more into that direction and has a good bit of Praise service focus. The liturgy though re-worked into a pretty contemporary format is still recognizably Lutherian laul. We really leave this finally to the local congregation and pastor though in our documents do provide a strong word of caution but advice is the only authority given to the ELCM.
As we grow our positions will be continually examined and perhaps we will somewhat ameliorate our present advisement if such would receive a consensus in light of Scripture and in light of the Confessions. The Lord's Blessings and our good wishes to you and your people as well as to the Word Alone effort. ELCM President. Schmutzler has begun writing a weekly article for Lutheran Commentator Online. Roo, can find the link to L. S often refered to as the Recusant was named Online Editor of L.
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These are very thought provoking one and all. If you haven't checked them out, please be encouraged to do so. Pastoral supervision of the effort will be provided by our newest Ministerium member, The Rev. But it is of course a false suggestion. A duly constituted Church body which has been formed by incorporated congregations that emphasizes the Canonical Scripture as the only source and norm of faith and practice, which emphasizes the enter Christian Book of Concord of as a correct exegesis and exposition of the Scripture from the Quia stance can be argued to be more truly Lutheran than a church body which views Scripture as only "containing the word of God" and which holds to only the Augsburg Confession and Small catechism of the Christian Book of Concord as primary Confessions and this in the Quatenus understanding.
We now have received the paper work needed to submit to the US Military to obtain the status of being a Chaplaincy enabling organization. All that is now required is to have a pastor who is a chaplain or who desires to be a Military chaplain become a member of the ELCM Clergy Roster.
At that time we would submit the required paper work and documentation along with the name of the Pastor s and thus become a Chaplaincy enabling Lutheran Church body. Finally we publicize the news about an upcoming Lutheran Free Conference sponsored by Evangelical Lutherans not by Evangelical Catholics. The following note by Pastor Jenson shares the specifics of what has been developing in this area.
It looks very good to us and likely some of us from ELCM will attempt to attend and to become part of the effort. It's called the first annual "Free Conference for the Lutheran Confessions. The purpose of the Free Conference is a continuing education event focusedd on the Lutheran Confessions which will take up major issues of confessional interpretation affecting the life and mission of Lutheranism. There will be presentations from some of the best Lutheran scholars around. In one sense, daint will be like the "Call to Faithfulness" conferences in the early 's only instead of being organized by the Evangelical Catholics, it will be organized by Evangelical Lutherans.
My personal hope for this annual conference is that it becomes a "can't miss" event. In other words, if you're serious about the Lutheran Confessions, you just won't be able to miss attending the Free Conference. Saunt will be the first thing every year that you plug into your schedule for continuing education.
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I'm not sure that this is exactly what Forde and Nestingen had in mind. But if saintt want Chicago to organize a "Confessional Congress," I'm convinced they would be disappointed in the. So, oaul better to go with a Free Conference. This week, articles of incorporation were filed with the State of Minnesota. The Board of Directors more modestly known as the planning committee are as follows:. Charles P. Louis, MO William K. Drew Term Expires: September 1, Mt. Olaf College Northfield, MN Mark Lutheran Church W.
Storm Lake, IA Peter V.
Hancock, MI Barbara A. Gordon S. Huffman, Jr. Main Street Columbus, OH Bradley C. James M. Paul, MN David A. Free Chat Now's chat room selection is separated by sexuality and interest. All of our chat rooms are intended for adults and the Sex Chat room rooom explicit content. Free Chat is the top free chat website online today.